1. NANCY LU (National) to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has she seen on the Government’s fiscal outlook?
Hon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance): Yesterday, in the half-year update, the Treasury released its latest fiscal forecasts. These show core Crown expenses steadily reducing to 30.5 percent of GPD by the end of the forecast period; the OBEGALx deficit narrowing, then returning to surplus; and core Crown net debt peaking at 46.9 percent of GDP before starting to fall. New Zealand’s fiscal position deteriorated markedly from 2019 onwards. We have brough back fiscal discipline, and these are a very positive set of forecasts.
Nancy Lu: Has she seen any recommendation for a ceiling on Government debt?
Hon NICOLA WILLIS: Yes. In 2020, the Treasury recommended, based on its modelling and analysis, that the Government should adopt a debt ceiling of 50 percent of GDP. This means that the Government should keep net core Crown debt below 50 percent of GDP in normal circumstances and, over the long term, provide headroom to respond to economic shocks and natural disasters. The previous Labour Government agreed with this debt ceiling of 50 percent of GDP. We agree with it, and the Labour Party finance spokesperson is on record as agreeing with it. [Interruption]
SPEAKER: Hang on. Sorry. You can’t expect me to make a decision about the appropriateness of an answer when you are, yourselves, making so much noise I can’t hear it. But it would be reasonable to say the Minister should refer to the Government programme, not to some other party’s policy.
Nancy Lu: Has she seen any alternative views about Government debt?
Hon NICOLA WILLIS: Yes. In my role, it is appropriate to canvass a wide range of views, and I have seen one alternative view in a recently published book. The author, well-known economic commentator Craig Renney, interprets the Treasury’s work differently. He says this work suggests the debt limit should, in fact, be around 80 to 90 percent of GDP, and he cites the Green Party’s analysis showing that the debt limit should, in fact, be up to 174 percent of GDP. This author doesn’t think savings are necessary, says New Zealand does not face fiscal constraints, and thinks the debt could be a lot higher. [Interruption]
SPEAKER: Just a moment. It may be the last day, but there can’t be tolerance for that sort of general barrage that was going on just then.
Nancy Lu: What other views, with fiscal implications, are expressed in this book?
Hon NICOLA WILLIS: Well, Mr Renney’s book proposes a whole range of policies. For example, which members of this House may wish to consider —
SPEAKER: No. Wait on. You’re going to have to stop there because a question that asks about what’s in someone’s book is not exactly a Minister being asked to account for Government activity. Besides, it’s Treasury, and you know my view. We’ll go to question No. 2 — the Rt Hon Chris Hipkins.
Hon Nicola Willis: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I view it as, actually, a very important part of my ministerial responsibility to review a range of opinions and insights on the economy —
SPEAKER: Sorry. Points of order are heard in silence. Can you please continue.
Hon Nicola Willis: — and on alternative proposals. I view it as a significant and important part of my ministerial responsibility to not only take and represent the views of Treasury, the agency which reports to me, but to canvass a wide range of opinions and views, and to hold theses into account when I am making decision in my ministerial capacity. Therefore, I think it’s appropriate that I reflect to the House what other views I am digesting and hearing about, and, in this case, Mr Speaker, this is a book that has been published by an independent economist who shows great literacy of the Treasury’s views and offers alternative perspectives on them, and I wish to share them with the House.
SPEAKER: That’s good, but you’ll appreciate that all supplementaries are at the discretion of the Speaker.
2. Rt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition) to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his Government’s statements and actions?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister): Yes.
Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Has homelessness increased or decreased since he became Prime Minister?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, as the member would understand, we don’t have a great set of data around homelessness, but what I can assure him on is that we are taking action on it, and you’ve actually seen us expand 300 more Housing First places — [Interruption]
SPEAKER: Sorry, it’s not going to happen — OK. It’s just reasonable interjection, not constant barrage. Some voices are very easy to detect.
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Thank you, Mr Speaker. As I’ve said before, we don’t have great data on homelessness per se, but what I’d say is that we have worked incredibly hard to make sure that we ensure improved housing affordability. We’re seeing that with homeownership and also with people being able to rent houses. We’ve taken 5,000 people off the State house wait-list, which is fantastic news. We’ve taken 3,000 families out of emergency hotel accommodation, and we actually have a very good plan to make sure that we offer up more spaces through Housing First — and 300 more places are available. I think there’s about $10 million being made available for rough sleepers, and, importantly, we’ve also given the Ministry of Social Development more discretion to support, as well.
Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Has unemployment increased or decreased since he became Prime Minister?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, as I’ve said to the member before to explain the five immutable laws of economics, when spending goes through the roof — up by 84 percent — when inflation hits 7.3 percent, and when there are 12 interest rate rises, an economy slows down and people lose their jobs, and that’s why this Government cares about low and middle income working New Zealanders. The Labour Party used to, but I don’t know what they do now.
Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Has the economy grown or shrunk since he became Prime Minister?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, the good news is that I’m sure we’ll see GDP numbers tomorrow, but all commentators are reporting, daily, positive news about the economy. I note that, today, we actually had some very good news from Westpac about business confidence — importantly, there’s been a very big improvement in business confidence in Auckland, which is what we’ve been wanting to see — and there’s been a series of great results.
Rt Hon Winston Peters: Can I ask the Prime Minister, has anything happened that was not forecast in the last forecast before the 2023 election, when Labour was in power?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, as the member well knows —
SPEAKER: Sorry, wait —
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: — there was a very good coalition Government formed that’s done an exceptionally good job of actually hauling New Zealand out of the economic mess we inherited, and now we’re making good progress. There’s more to do, but it’s pretty encouraging stuff.
Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Have household living costs increased or decreased since he became Prime Minister?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Again, the key thing here is that inflation has gone from 7.3 percent down to 3 percent, and that’s the single biggest thing that’s made a difference to low and middle income working New Zealanders and household expenditure. The other big component part — as the member will be well aware — is interest rates, and, unfortunately, the previous Government ran it up 12 times, and we’ve brought it down nine times. That means for an average mortgage holder an extra $10,000 every year, and that’s fantastic news.
Rt Hon Winston Peters: Would the present Government be having a housing problem if the 100,000 houses policy of Labour had worked?
SPEAKER: No, that’s not something he can comment on.
Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: Have race relations in New Zealand improved or worsened since he became Prime Minister?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, I think there has been some good collaboration between the Government and iwi on key topics. If I think about the work on social housing in Tairāwhiti, if I think about the work that we’ve been doing on immunisation rates for under-twos, and if I think about the work that we’ve been doing to connect international investors with iwi organisations, it’s been important.
Rt Hon Chris Hipkins: When will he accept — given that homelessness has increased, unemployment has increased, the economy has shrunk, household living costs have increased, and race relations have worsened — responsibility for the actions his Government has taken in the last two years that have made all of those indicators worse?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, I want to reassure the member that this is a Government that takes its responsibilities incredibly seriously. It’s a Government that cares deeply about lower and middle income working New Zealanders, and, as a result, we don’t go “Stuff the economy.” and cause the pain and suffering that would have ensued over the last two years.
SPEAKER: Question —
Hon Kieran McAnulty: That is the Prime Minister under the pump.
SPEAKER: Thanks very much. You’ll be going for it shortly, as well.
3. Hon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader — Green) to the Prime Minister: E tautoko ana ia i ngā kōrero me ngā mahi katoa a tōna Kāwanatanga?
[Does he stand by all of his Government’s statements and actions?]
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister): Yes.
Hon Marama Davidson: Does he acknowledge that the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update (HYEFU) estimates that unemployment will keep peaking from right now through to March next year; therefore, will his Government front up with more resourcing to stretch community providers who are trying to make sure everyone can access kai for their whānau this Christmas?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, the way in which we lower unemployment is that we actually get Government spending under control, we bring down inflation, we bring down interest rates, we get our economy growing, and that expands employment. The very good news out of HYEFU yesterday was that there will be 270,000 new jobs being created. I just want to acknowledge the Minister for Social Development; she’s done a brilliant job of making sure that people who are on the jobseeker benefit are getting job-ready for jobs available today and jobs available tomorrow. [Interruption]
SPEAKER: The question is about to be asked.
Hon Marama Davidson: Will the tight Budget his Government is choosing for next year, alongside the fall in projected revenue, result in further cuts to community providers who are already unable to keep up with demand?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Well, as I’ve just explained to the member in the answer to my previous question, it’s all about driving economic growth. That is how we lift the collective living standards of every single New Zealander. But I can tell you what the answer is not; the answer is not more tax, more spending, more borrowing under a Labour-Greens Government that caused the mess and actually put low and middle income New Zealanders into a real hole, and we’re digging them out of it.
Hon Marama Davidson: How will his Government respond to community kai providers who told Chlöe Swarbrick and I on Monday that the level of need is so dire for people that it is far beyond the services and support they are able to provide over this Christmas period?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: By running a great economy and getting it growing.
Hon Marama Davidson: Is he aware that community providers of kai have had to stop advertising their services because they cannot meet demand?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: What I’m aware of is that many New Zealanders were put into a very difficult situation because of economic mismanagement and vandalism from a Labour-Greens Government. This is a Government working very hard to make sure there is opportunity being created and growth in our economy.
Hon Marama Davidson: Will his Government choose to keep whānau reliant on food banks and charity for kai, or will he ensure everyone has what they need to live with dignity?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: That’s why we’re building an economy so that people can get connected to work and that’s really important.
Tākuta Ferris: In the spirit of Christmas — [Interruption]
SPEAKER: Hey, wait on. Would all the commentators like to leave the House or sit quietly —
Tākuta Ferris: The exit’s over here.
SPEAKER: Hang on. Sit quietly through a question being asked.
Tākuta Ferris: Might you have an update for the people of Te Tau Ihu who couldn’t make it today on the progress made with Te Here-ā-Nuku?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: I’m very proud of the progress that we made, and I want to thank the member for being present this morning as well. This is an issue that has sat in New Zealand for a long period of time. It’s something that I want to commend the Attorney-General around as well, as well as actually the negotiators and Mr Stafford in particular. It’s something that we should be very proud of. It’s an issue that has been a long-running issue. It has been resolved. It has required compromise and partnership from both sides, and I think we’ve got to a great outcome. I’m very excited about what comes next. Really, that’s the opportunity that the agreement and the resolution today puts in place.
4. JAMIE ARBUCKLE (NZ First) to the Minister of Customs: What recent reports has she seen about increased border protections this summer?
Hon CASEY COSTELLO (Minister of Customs): Customs is well prepared to ensure that travellers move smoothly during our busiest travel season while also protecting our border from threats. On Monday, Customs announced that with over 15,000 kilometres of coastline to monitor, their maritime surveillance and patrols won’t be taking any time off. Customs’ Border Protect programme is also urging everyday Kiwis to remain vigilant about our coastline this summer. Reporting any unusual activity supports Customs’ efforts to detect and deter criminal activity.
Jamie Arbuckle: How is Customs supporting smooth traveller movements?
Hon CASEY COSTELLO: For genuine travellers, Customs has enhanced its digital services with faster processing through the New Zealand Traveller Declaration. The digital declaration facilitates travellers’ processing for both air passengers and those in New Zealand through the cruise season. At airports, Customs has also expanded eGate eligibility to a further 22 countries this year. Now travellers from 59 countries are able to use that digital self-service option for border processing. Together these digital services save travellers time and free up front-line customs officers to focus on high risks such as drug smuggling.
Jamie Arbuckle: Why is focus on high-risk passengers and activities in the maritime domain important?
Hon CASEY COSTELLO: Customs continues to seize record amounts of illicit materials — from the recent passenger in Auckland with over 15 kilograms of meth in his luggage to seizures of more than 60 kilograms of cocaine at the Port of Tauranga over the last two weeks. The threats at our border are very real and unrelenting. Every measure that Customs introduces to streamline processing for legitimate passengers and trade means that we can invest more time assessing threats and investigating them, which ultimately leads to more seizures and reduced harm in our communities.
Jamie Arbuckle: What messages does she have for Kiwis and other travellers this summer?
Hon CASEY COSTELLO: I’d like to encourage everyone travelling into New Zealand to take advantage of the digital traveller declaration and eGate. They are faster for you and support Customs’ efforts to keep our borders safe. I’d like to also encourage everyone around our coastline this summer to keep their eyes open and help collectively to protect our borders. Finally, if I may, Mr Speaker, I’d like to acknowledge the incredible dedication and professionalism of our customs staff. While many of us are on holiday, they will be working hard, keeping our border secure and making sure we get to where we want to go.
5. Hon BARBARA EDMONDS (Labour — Mana) to the Minister of Finance: Does she stand by all her statements and actions?
Hon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance): Yes, and I particularly stand by my statement that I am proud of our Government’s action to deliver tax relief to more than 3.5 million working New Zealanders — tax relief without which, on average, 1.9 million households would be worse off by $60 per fortnight.
Hon Barbara Edmonds: Does she stand by her statement that “We have invested more funding in public infrastructure.”, and, if so, why do the Government’s books show a $3 billion reduction in capital spending from 2024 to 2025 and declining capital over the forecast period?
Hon NICOLA WILLIS: Yes, because we have added more investment through our capital allocations at each Budget.
Hon Barbara Edmonds: Why, then, did the Treasury say, “In some sectors like residential construction, where the sector has shrunk and workers have left, in some cases, abroad, expansion may be more constrained.”?
Hon NICOLA WILLIS: Because when interest rates soar very high, what happens is construction firms and housing investors find it more difficult to borrow, and, therefore, projects often go on hold or off the boil. That has been the story in the New Zealand economy in recent times, following a very steep rise in interest rates. The good news is that interest rates have now come down significantly, and we have in place not only a fast-track regime but a replacement for the Resource Management Act coming that will mean that new housing projects, new construction projects, new quarries, new mines can get consented a whole lot faster, and workers can get to work building them.
Hon Barbara Edmonds: Why does she continue to say that jobs are coming when yesterday, the Treasury have said there will be higher unemployment than previously expected?
Hon NICOLA WILLIS: Because the Treasury has advised me that over the forecast period, 270,000 jobs will be added to the New Zealand economy.
Hon Barbara Edmonds: Who else is there to blame for her economic mismanagement given she has blamed the Treasury, the Taxpayers’ Union, Ruth Richardson, Labour, Grant Robertson, power companies, the banks, Fonterra, insurance companies, supermarkets, US tariffs, “merchants of misery”, teenagers, homeless people, John Key, teachers, firefighters, doctors, nurses, local councils, and unions? [Interruption]
SPEAKER: Just a minute. It’s clearly an important question — you should listen.
Hon NICOLA WILLIS: I don’t take responsibility for the economic mess our Government inherited. What I do take responsibility for is fixing it, and today, I take my commitment one step further and I take responsibility for this: ensuring this economy is not put at risk by the election of a Labour-led Government next year. We’ll make sure that our economy remains on track to surplus debt reduction and that New Zealanders are saved from the ravages of more tax, more borrowing, more red tape, and a step backwards.
6. DAN BIDOIS (National — Northcote) to the Minister of Health: What recent progress has been made on the Government’s health targets to improve access to timely, quality healthcare?
Hon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Health): This Government is delivering improved access to healthcare for patients.
Shanan Halbert: What did the Wellington High Court say?
Hon SIMEON BROWN: Health New Zealand’s latest quarterly results show year-on-year —
SPEAKER: Glen Bennett, stand up, leave the House. You don’t call out during questions.
Hon SIMEON BROWN: Health New Zealand’s latest quarterly —
SPEAKER: Oh, sorry, I take that back. It was an answer. I apologise for being a grinch. I largely suspect that had you left the House, it would be like a present, so I take that back.
Hon SIMEON BROWN: Merry Christmas, Mr Speaker.
SPEAKER: Start again, please. I think it would be a good idea if people just at least let a Minister get a few words out before they have something to say.
Hon SIMEON BROWN: This Government is delivering improved access to healthcare for patients. Health New Zealand’s latest quarterly results show year-on-year improvements across all five health targets, despite the busy and challenging winter. This means that New Zealanders are getting faster access to cancer treatment, more children are being immunised, and patients are waiting less time for their specialist assessments and elective surgeries. There is clearly more work to do, and too many New Zealanders are still waiting too long for the care that they need. These results are making a real difference to people’s lives, and show what happens when you focus the system on putting patients first.
Dan Bidois: What improvements are patients seeing in wait times for specialist assessments and elective procedures?
Hon SIMEON BROWN: Despite union strikes cancelling around 13,500 procedures and appointments between July and September, the percentage of patients being seen within the target time frame continues to improve; 62.3 percent of patients are receiving their first specialist assessments within four months, and nearly 66 percent are getting elective treatment within that time frame — both clear improvements on the same quarter last year. Whilst this shows an improvement, too many people are still waiting too long. That’s why we’ve reinstated the targets and introduced the Elective Boost, which has delivered thousands of additional procedures like hip and knee replacements and cataract surgeries, helping Kiwis get back to work and back to living their lives.
Dan Bidois: What do these results show about the Government’s commitment to cancer care and to protecting children’s health?
Hon SIMEON BROWN: These results show that our Government is backing up its priorities with action and investment. Faster cancer treatment is improving, with 86.8 percent of patients starting treatment within 31 days of a diagnosis, up from 84.6 percent in the same quarter last year. This is supported by our $604 million Pharmac boost, which is delivering 33 new cancer medicines for New Zealanders. At the same time, child immunisation rates have seen the biggest improvement of any target, lifting to 82.6 percent, up from 75.7 percent at the same time last year. This is the largest gain across all targets, protecting thousands more young Kiwis from preventable diseases. This means that these Kiwi kids are getting the best start to life.
Dan Bidois: How will the Government continue to drive improvements and avoid the complacency New Zealand has seen in the past?
Hon SIMEON BROWN: We are continuing to focus the system on delivery. Health targets, backed by a record $30 billion of annual investment in health, are restoring accountability to the system and delivering better outcomes for patients. While progress has been made, we know that too many New Zealanders are still waiting for too long to be seen. We are fixing the basics and building the future, with our focus clearly on ensuring that every New Zealander can access timely, quality healthcare by rebuilding the health system around patients. I want to finish by thanking our healthcare workers for their dedicated work throughout a challenging year and for continuing to put patients first.
7. Hon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour) to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Can I first congratulate the Minister on her wedding over the weekend — well done; hope it all goes well. Sincere congratulations to the Minister. But to the question: does she stand by her statement that “I absolutely stand by our target of 50,000 fewer people on the jobseeker support by 2030”; if so, why?
Hon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment): Yes, absolutely. Our Government inherited an economic mess where close to 190,000 people were on the jobseeker support, when businesses around the country were desperate for staff. Our Government is ambitious for all New Zealanders, so we’re fixing the basics and building a welfare system focused on utilising the talent of our people. We’re proactively supporting those who can work to get off welfare and into work, and more than 83,000 people exited a main benefit for work in the year ending November 2025. We’ve always acknowledged that many Kiwis have been finding things tough, which is why we’re building the future and helping people get into work.
Hon Willie Jackson: Is the Treasury wrong, then, when it forecasts job seeker numbers to be 200,000 by 2030, as shown in yesterday’s Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update, and, if so, why?
Hon LOUISE UPSTON: Well, we do know that the Half Year Economic and Fiscal Update forecasts unemployment to be where we expected it would be in January next year. The other thing it did say is it had some really positive stories about economic growth and opportunities, and also reinforced the 270,000 jobs that will be with us shortly.
Hon Willie Jackson: How can the Minister stand by her statement when 200,000 people will be on job seeker by 2030, 60,000 more than her target, or will she change the eligibility criteria, like she did with 18-and 19-year-olds, just so she can say she has met her target?
Hon LOUISE UPSTON: As I said, we are absolutely focused on the target. We know the massive impact that every single person who gets off welfare into work has, and that’s why I’m really, really proud of the team at the Ministry of Social Development, who work incredibly hard each and every day. They are life-changers for every single person they get into work, and despite it being challenging economically, 83,000 people in the last year alone have exited welfare into work. As economic conditions improve, as shown in the Half-Year Economic and Fiscal Update, I’m very optimistic that we will achieve our target.
Hon Willie Jackson: Does she think it’s a double standard, though, that she’s increased sanctions on job seekers who miss their targets, yet the Minister is repeatedly told she is missing her target, and she gets no sanction, no penalty, no nothing?
Hon LOUISE UPSTON: Unlike that member, I’m incredibly optimistic and can see that the economic growth that our coalition Government is driving will give us more opportunities to support New Zealanders off welfare into work. As I said, I think it’s cause for celebration that 83,000 New Zealanders came off welfare into work in the last year, and I actually think that’s worth celebrating.
Hon Willie Jackson: Why does she keep ignoring the Ministry of Social Development, the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet, and now the Treasury when they keep telling her that she will fail to achieve her target, or will she keep her head in the sand and pretend there’s nothing wrong?
Hon LOUISE UPSTON: Well, unlike that side of the House, I’m very optimistic about the way that the New Zealand economy has turned the corner, despite the absolute train wreck that we inherited. This side of the House knows that for every single person that we move off welfare into work, it is life-changing for them, for their whānau, and their community, and we will not give up on any one of them.
SPEAKER: I haven’t called you yet, because the House seems very animated — Dr Hamish Campbell.
8. Dr HAMISH CAMPBELL (National — Ilam) to the Minister for Mental Health: What announcements has he made about supporting families who experience stillbirth?
Hon MATT DOOCEY (Minister for Mental Health): This Government is committed to ensuring families who experience the loss of a baby are treated with dignity and compassion. That’s why we’ve announced we will change the process of registering a stillbirth so that it is more supportive and sensitive for grieving parents. Every year in New Zealand, approximately 700 to 900 families experience perinatal loss. We’re committed to making sure parents who lose a baby are met with dignity, care, and the right support.
Dr Hamish Campbell: Why was a change needed to the current process?
Hon MATT DOOCEY: For too long, families have had no choice but to complete stillbirth registrations through the same online process designed for parents registering their newborn. We’ve heard from grieving families that going through the same process adds unnecessary pain at an already traumatic and distressing time. Changing this process is about reducing distress and showing understanding for what families are going through.
Dr Hamish Campbell: What will the process be under the new approach?
Hon MATT DOOCEY: Health New Zealand is working with the Department of Internal Affairs on a new approach which will allow parents to register a stillbirth through the Whetūrangitia website. This is a dedicated website designed to support families who have experienced baby loss. Moving the registration process to Whetūrangitia means that parents can engage through a process that acknowledges their loss and connects them to the right services and support. Health New Zealand will fund the technical and service changes needed to make this happen, ensuring the process is sensitive, streamlined, and aligned with the guidance already available on Whetūrangitia.
Dr Hamish Campbell: What responses has he seen from families impacted by stillbirth?
Hon MATT DOOCEY: Some of the messages from families impacted by stillbirth that I’ve seen have been both heartbreaking and deeply encouraging. Sharma said, “This is a much-needed change. I was pregnant with twin boys and one passed in utero. It was heartbreaking and so hard to follow the same steps to register the birth of both my boys in the same process, even though one boy was alive and one wasn’t.” Lily said, “This is a really positive step in the right direction, and Whetūrangitia is such a great idea. It’s an amazing resource for bereaved parents.” This is a simple change, but it’s a meaningful way to reduce distress and show compassion during one of the most difficult times in someone’s life.
SPEAKER: Oh, sorry. A supplementary. My apologies — Mariameno Kapa-Kingi.
Mariameno Kapa-Kingi: Thank you. Will the Minister commit to introducing reporting on Māori birth parents who experience stillbirth and are receiving disproportionately high rates of compulsory mental health treatment, and, if not, why not?
Hon MATT DOOCEY: I welcome that question from the member. I think it’s important that we do have the data that informs decisions around ensuring everyone gets access to timely mental health and addiction support. Today, we released quarter 1 data that showed Māori access to mental health and addiction support for primary and specialist services is increasing. I want to acknowledge our Māori services by Māori for everyone, as well as a significant improvement in Pasifika and Asian, as well as our rural, mental health services. It is important that we set a standard of what was a guaranteed level of service in this country and ensure Health New Zealand delivers to that standard the Government has set.
9. Hon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour) to the Minister for Disability Issues: Does she stand by her statement, “We know disabled people want to participate in their communities, to make decisions themselves and to thrive”; if so, why?
Hon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Disability Issues): Yes. That’s why we’ve released the New Zealand Disability Strategy which sets out measurable actions we will take over the next five years to help realise the aspirations of disabled people. It has been clear, from the conversations I’ve had with the disability community, that this is important to them. The strategy is an important lever for building the future and driving positive change for disabled people. Our Government is committed to improving the lives of disabled people, and we have demonstrated this with an over $2.1 billion investment into the disability support services.
Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan: How is driving transport costs up for disabled people by cutting funding to the Total Mobility scheme, that thousands of disabled people rely on, supporting them to participate in their communities?
Hon LOUISE UPSTON: It’s hard to cut funding when it wasn’t appropriated in the first place. What this Government has inherited is yet another mess of uncontrolled spending with a fiscal cliff. So, instead, our Government is focused on how we ensure that there is fair, consistent, and available support for disabled people and older New Zealanders to ensure there is a Total Mobility scheme available to them from one end of New Zealand to the other.
Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan: Why is she making the lives of disabled people worse by increasing their cost of living, when the Ministry of Social Development’s own research shows many disabled people already go without healthy food and cannot visit family because it’s too expensive?
Hon LOUISE UPSTON: Well, as this side of the House has said on many occasions, unfortunately the economic reality we inherited from the previous Government has meant we have had to get on top of a range of out-of-control costs. Part of what we have focused on very, very deliberately in our support for disabled people is having fair, consistent, transparent, and reliable services. As I said, that’s why we have invested $2.1 billion into disability support services to improve the support they get. From February next year, it will also enable greater choice and control into the way that they are able to support and ensure that their services are delivered the way they choose.
Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan: Is disability advocate Peter Boock wrong when he says that her changes are “cost-cutting to shift the burden on to the poorest and most marginalised people in our society,”?
Hon LOUISE UPSTON: No, and I would note that in September 2023 — mere months after that member, when she was Minister, announced the increase in the subsidy to 75 percent — the then Minister of Transport David Parker told media outlets that his ministry was undertaking a review of Total Mobility, including investigating affordability. So it would have been really helpful if, when that member was in charge, she’d actually budgeted — put the money aside — and not given empty promises to disabled people.
Hon Chris Bishop: Can the Minister confirm that the appropriation for Total Mobility has remained flat into the out-years, even though a decision was made to increase the subsidy, which has unsurprisingly had the impact of increasing demand and therefore costs to the scheme?
Hon LOUISE UPSTON: I can, and the point is that the previous Government — [Interruption]
SPEAKER: Sorry, just a minute. For a lot of people in this country, this is a very important question, so we’ll hear it without any interruption.
Hon LOUISE UPSTON: I can confirm that, and what is absolutely despicable is making promises to disabled people when the funding is not set aside and when the then Government and the Minister of Transport within a couple a months could see there was going to be an issue around affordability and sustainability of the Total Mobility scheme. Yet again, this side of the House has taken on the reality of fixing a problem we inherited, and what we are ensuring is that disabled people and seniors have a Total Mobility scheme that is accessible across one end of New Zealand to the other, because what we do know is it’s not just an affordability challenge for central government; it’s been a big affordability challenge for local councils, and we wanted to ensure that we had a scheme that we could continue and that regional councils could continue to fund as well.
Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan: What message does it — [Interruption]
SPEAKER: Just hold on — hold on. I’m just going to say for the rest of this question at least, anyone who calls out at all will be having an early afternoon.
Hon Priyanca Radhakrishnan: What message does it send that her Government’s holiday gift to disabled people is less independence, less dignity, more anxiety, and less community participation, all because her Government views disabled people as a financial burden?
Hon LOUISE UPSTON: I fail to even have words in this House for the level of despicability of that question. But what I would say is the changes that we have announced don’t take the level of subsidy back to what it was in 2022. What we are doing is the changes will come into effect on 1 July — we have taken one decision in order to ensure that the Total Mobility scheme is sustainable. I’d really encourage and invite disabled people, their whānau and community, as well as seniors who access the Total Mobility scheme to have their say on the consultation document put out by the Ministry of Transport because this is also an opportunity to strengthen the scheme, to make it more flexible, and to allow those who use the system to have more choice and control. I’d really encourage them to have their say. We will be listening. We will make changes to ensure that it meets their needs.
10. DEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader — Te Pāti Māori) to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his Government’s statements and actions?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister): Yes.
Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: Why has the Government announced a merger of three major ministries that will impact over 1,300 staff just a week before Christmas?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Because we want to have outstanding execution of our Resource Management Act reforms, and we need to build an organisation that can deliver up against that task. Also, this is a Cabinet that’s taken a decision and we didn’t want any further speculation.
Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: Why has the Government chosen not to extend transport subsidies for our kaumātua and tangata whaikaha just a week before Christmas?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: Because the system was unaffordable and unworkable. We did not want the risk of local government authorities backing out of the system. We’ve pulled it back 10 percent; it’s a 65 percent subsidy — unlike the previous Government that actually made promises but didn’t put the money aside, and as a result there was a massive blowout in the system.
Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: Will he rule out including the Treaty principles bill in any future coalition agreement with the ACT Party?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: I’ve got no responsibility for that as a Prime Minister, but I have made my position clear as leader of the National Party
Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: Is the Prime Minister running a Secret Santa this year, and, if so, which Minister drew Māori communities, because the gift seems to have gone missing?
SPEAKER: No — that’s not a question. Have you got another question? Just a complete waste of a question, that one.
Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: Why did his Government decide to gift $3 billion to landlords and take $13 billion from the hard-working women of this country?
SPEAKER: No. Also, you can’t do that either. Ask a question without making a statement. That is a statement of opinion, not a question.
Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: Why did the Prime Minister decide to gift $3 billion tax —
SPEAKER: No. Sorry. You can’t — you can keep trying, but that doesn’t cut it either. It’s Christmas; last chance.
Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: Thank you. Did the Prime Minister decide to gift $3 billion tax —
SPEAKER: No. Sorry. You’re talking about the State’s books —
Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: Well, it was $3 billion.
SPEAKER: I’m being incredibly tolerant, but that is not a question that you can ask a Minister, because Ministers don’t have the capacity to do what you’re suggesting. So ask a question.
SPEAKER: Sorry — did someone object to that, down the backbench from the National Party? Well, in that case, you can all stay silent through the rest of this question.
Debbie Ngarewa-Packer: Did the Government decide to do tax breaks of $3 billion to landlords, and did the Government decide to take $13 billion from the hard-working women of this country?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: We’ve canvassed these issues before over the course of this year. What this Government did do is it gave tax relief to low and middle income working New Zealanders, and not one member of Labour, Te Pāti Māori, or the Greens supported that.
Hon David Seymour: Can the Prime Minister find the patience to continue the long wait for some acknowledgment that restoring mortgage interest deductibility for residential housing has actually been accompanied by a fall in rents?
Rt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON: I can confirm that. I can confirm under the previous administration, rents went up $180 a week, making housing really unfordable for people. This is a Government that has improved housing affordability by lowering rents, and one of the things that contributed to that is making it attractive for landlords to put their properties on the private rental market.
Hon David Seymour: Does the Prime Minister believe it is possible to “gift” money by reducing taxes, or did the money belong to the people who earned it in the first place, thereby making it impossible for the Government to gift it to them?
SPEAKER: The Prime Minister need not comment on that. I’ve already made it clear that Governments don’t gift; Governments —
Hon David Seymour: Did anyone hear that over there?
SPEAKER: Could we have the Hon Jo Luxton, question No. 11.
11. Hon JO LUXTON (Labour) to the Minister for Biosecurity: Is it still his intention to eradicate the yellow-legged hornet from New Zealand?
Hon ANDREW HOGGARD (Minister for Biosecurity): Yes, it is. I would just like to recognise all the hard-working people at Biosecurity New Zealand and the contractors — nearly 150 of them — that will be working through the summer to accomplish that goal.
Hon Jo Luxton: Does he regret cutting more than 100 jobs from the Ministry for Primary Industries biosecurity team in 2024, given the professor of biology Phil Lester said if the yellow-legged hornet gets established, it will be a major threat to our dairy and kiwifruit industries and all those that work in them?
Hon ANDREW HOGGARD: As has been said to the member opposite and other members many times in written parliamentary questions, the actual number of front-line biosecurity officers has increased.
Hon Jo Luxton: Why hasn’t he allocated additional funding to support the eradication programme?
Hon ANDREW HOGGARD: Watch this space. I will be making an announcement shortly.
Hon Jo Luxton: What is the expected loss to the economy and to jobs in our dairy, horticulture, and viticulture sectors if the hornet is not eradicated?
Hon ANDREW HOGGARD: Well, again, the intention is to eradicate it. To the best of my knowledge, there will be, potentially, a 30 percent reduction in hive numbers if the hornet was to become established. But, I would just say, we are taking on some serious expert advice from around the world — from countries where they are fighting this hornet. They have been mightily impressed at the effort we are putting in, the resources we are devoting to this, and also the interest that the people of New Zealand are putting into this. We are seeing people responding up and down the country with reports of sightings. The people of the North Shore especially, are right in behind this, and I think we will be able to achieve eradication.
Hon Jo Luxton: Will he take responsibility for any job losses as a result of impact to industry from the hornet, given the decisions he has failed to make as Minister?
Hon ANDREW HOGGARD: As I’ve already said, I haven’t failed to make any decisions. We have decided to eradicate this. We have organised all the research that needs to happen. We have got the resources there. We are giving this 110 percent.
SPEAKER: Just wait, Mr Tuiono, until the whole House is listening. Now would be good.
12. TEANAU TUIONO (Green) to the Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety: Why has she chosen to allow a rise in the minimum wage that is less than the CPI inflation forecast?
Hon BROOKE VAN VELDEN (Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety): The new minimum wage rate will apply from 1 April 2026. Consumers Price Index (CPI) inflation is forecast to be around 2 percent quite soon after the new minimum wage rate applies, where it is forecast to remain relatively stable. This 2 percent increase is exactly the minimum wage rise that the Government has set.
Teanau Tuiono: Does she accept that an increase in the minimum wage that is less than inflation is an effective pay cut, and, if so, what message does this send to hard-working essential workers just before Christmas?
Hon BROOKE VAN VELDEN: I believe I addressed that in the first part of that first question. Second to that, I think the member needs to be aware — and I would hope that every member of this House is already aware — that businesses are doing it tough across New Zealand, and every wage increase is an increase to business. We know that unemployment rates are high already, especially for youth unemployment, and the responsible thing at this point in time is not to set the minimum wage too high so that if affects youth unemployment.
Teanau Tuiono: Does she accept the advice from officials that shows that since 2022 there has been no wage compression and that minimum-wage workers have relatively gone backwards in real earnings compared to higher earners?
Hon BROOKE VAN VELDEN: Research by the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE) has found that the minimum wage increases have been the main driver of wage compression over the past 25 years, which has narrowed the gap between low and middle income earners. The , which measure how close the minimum wage is to the median wage, increased by 32 percent between 2000 and 2023, while the minimum wage increased by over 75 percent, with adjusting for inflation. This is quite concerning because we know that people out there across our broader economy feel hard done by when the minimum wage starts catching up to their own wages.
Teanau Tuiono: Was choosing to cut the minimum wage for 2026 relative to inflation simply doing a favour to business owners, noting that officials found no overall negative impacts on productivity or incentives to education or training for historic high minimum wage increases?
Hon BROOKE VAN VELDEN: No.
Hon David Seymour: Can the Minister confirm that few minimum-wage workers are the main breadwinner for their household and those who are are generally eligible for tax credits, which they loose when their wages increase, meaning that minimum wage increases are a very poor way to fight poverty?
Hon BROOKE VAN VELDEN: That is true — [Interruption]
SPEAKER: Just a moment. I’m pleased you’ve got an opinion; I haven’t.
Hon BROOKE VAN VELDEN: It is true that it’s widely acknowledged that minimum wage increases are not a poverty-reduction tool. With the statistics that have been provided for me by MBIE, the largest population group that is affected by minimum wage increases is actually young people.
Hon Carmel Sepuloni: Young people help their whānau too.
SPEAKER: Look — all day; all day long. If it weren’t for the exalted position you hold within your front bench, you might have had an earlier afternoon.
Teanau Tuiono: Do the workers deserve a merry Christmas, and if so, why is this Government just the Grinch that privatised Christmas?
Hon BROOKE VAN VELDEN: The only grinch is the one sitting across there on the Opposition benches. This Government would wish a merry Christmas to all.
