In the wake of Oct. 7, some Canadian Jews are quietly looking to Florida, Israel, Panama and Tulsa — just in case.
For many Canadian Jews who grew up feeling secure here, the idea of needing a ‘Plan B’ might have never occurred to them. Unthinkable, even. It was something their grandparents faced before the Holocaust. But in recent months, that conversation is now happening in many Jewish spaces across this country — even among people who have no immediate plans to leave.
Some families are actively scouting Florida, despite the political and immigration challenges which the U.S. poses. Others are traveling to Panama, to explore buying property there just in case-where permanent residency is attainable. Real estate agents and immigration lawyers in Israel and beyond are fielding new calls. And communities in the U.S. and Israel are marketing directly to Canadians: you will have heard about Lech L’Tulsa, Oklahoma.
But is this a real demographic shift — or is it something deeper: a rupture in confidence about the future of Jewish life in Canada in response to rising antisemitism and uncertainty?
Today on The CJN’s flagship podcast North Star, host Ellin Bessner examines why some Canadian Jews are looking for Plan B: we speak with Aryeh Snitman and his wife Heather Snitman of Thornhill who are exploring both Florida and Panama; with Jaqueline Lewis, of Toronto, who bought a place in Panama just a few months ago; and with Lauren Cohen, a Canadian-born lawyer based in Boca Raton, Florida who provides immigration business and real estate guidance to clients considering moving to “Mechaya Florida”.
Related links:
* Learn more about Tafsik’s Plan B resources, their next trip to Panama in March , and watch their Zoom video about moving to Panama.
* Read more about Lauren Cohen’s immigration and real estate services designed for Canadians interested in relocating to Florida, or elsewhere in the United States.
* Why these Canadian Jews moved to Israel months after Oct. 7, 2023, in The CJN.
Transcript:
Ellin Bessner
For many Canadian Jews who grew up feeling secure here, the idea of needing a Plan B never crossed their minds. It was unthinkable: something their grandparents understood all too well before the Holocaust.
But since October 7th, that conversation has begun to surface. Not in public speeches and not in dramatic announcements, but quietly, in Jewish homes across the country, also at town halls and on Zooms. Some families are scouting moves to Florida, despite the political climate and immigration hurdles in the U.S.
Others are traveling to Panama to explore buying property, just in case, where permanent residency is more easily attainable.
Real estate agents and immigration lawyers in Israel report new inquiries and community communities in the U.S. and Israel are now marketing directly to Canadians, including the campaign encouraging Jews to relocate to Tulsa, Oklahoma.
But is this the beginning of a demographic shift, or is it a psychological response to rising antisemitism, and uncertainty? A rupture in confidence about the future of Jewish life in Canada, which is prompting Jewish Canadians to look for a contingency plan?
Jacqueline Lewis
“There is no antisemitism. I just never experienced it. Everything was great. And one day you wake up and you say, like, where am I? You know? And you don’t recognize where you are anymore. And you’re having to look over your shoulder, you’re having to watch what you say, you’re having to hush hush. So I figured, you know, I’m now in a dysfunctional relationship with this country.”
Aryeh Snitman
First of all, Plan B, it’s not what I’m calling it. I’m calling it an escape hatch, I’m calling it insurance, and I’m calling it prudent management of our family and their future.
Ellin Bessner
I’m Ellion Bessner and this is what Jewish Canada sounds like for Monday, February 23rd, 2026. Welcome to North Star, the flagship podcast of The Canadian Jewish News, made possible thanks to the generous support of the Ira Gluskin and Maxine Granovsky Gluskin Charitable Foundation.
In recent months, I’ve been hearing this conversation about Plan B more often than I have in decades. The last time it surfaced widely was when the Parti Quebecois came to power in the 1970s in Quebec, and tens of thousands of Montreal Jews moved down the 401 to Toronto.
But this moment feels different. The conversation is different. Since October 7th and the surge in antisemitism in this country, the phrase Plan B keeps surfacing, but to leave Canada.
It isn’t a story about mass migration, it’s about something quieter. For some Canadian Jews, the rise in antisemitic incidents that followed has shaken their long-held confidence. Not enough to pack up, not yet, but enough to start asking questions. And for some families, those questions are leading to very specific places. You’ll hear several interviews today. Later, you’ll hear from a Toronto lawyer who bought property in Panama and from a Canadian-born immigration lawyer in Boca Raton who says she’s fielding increasing inquiries. But first, I met laywer Aryeh Snitman and his wife Heather, a retired teacher, literally at the Air Canada check-in counter in Fort Lauderdale Airport a few weeks ago. I was coming home from visiting family and the Thornhill couple had just spent a week exploring South Florida. They checked out both coasts, with an eye to moving. The couple has three adult daughters. Here’s our conversation about how their private discussions turned into a fact-finding trip.
Heather Snitman
We’re here for a week, Plan B. We’re looking around to see if there was a community maybe we might be a little bit more comfortable in, than we are in Toronto at the moment.
Aryeh Snitman
There is a bit of a chilly political environment in Canada as well. I think Heather would agree with me.
Heather Snitman
Absolutely.
Aryeh Snitman:
In that description. So setting the stage, both Heather and I are multiple, multiple generations in this country. All right. You know, my grandmother was born in Toronto. over 100 years ago.
Heather Snitman
My grandmother came here when she was two years old.
From. Russia, Ukraine. She was born in 1902, so 1904-ish.
Ellin Bessner
Okay, same like my family came 1903, whatever, 1900.
Aryeh Snitman
They escaped antisemitism and obviously we likely wouldn’t be here if they hadn’t. So they had the foresight to do that at the time. And they came to a place with… They came to a place, they came to a country with not just opportunity, which they didn’t have in what they called the old country, but certain freedoms that they didn’t have in the old country, including freedom not to be massacred in a pogrom or worse.
And so obviously society has progressed and we would have liked to have thought that it would have continued to progress, but something…
Ellin Bessner
Well, it did for almost 75, 80 years.
Aryeh Snitman
Agree. And then something changed in Canada in the last, I would say, decade. Okay. So we attribute these changes to government policies, both, well, all three levels of government, federal, provincial, and municipal, that have effectively conspired against the Jewish community. And when I say the Jewish community, I’m talking about our family and our friends and the broader Jewish community of people who are engaged and active and caring and inclusive of the Jewish community and the issues that concern the Jewish community.
Heather Snitman
So some of our friends, their parents were Holocaust survivors, they wouldn’t even do an interview like this because they would be afraid. They would be afraid that their name would be smeared. Another friend would be afraid she couldn’t get work. People are afraid to just wear their Star of Davids, to be openly Jewish. I go to the Jewish Community Centre; we go to synagogue. We were at synagogue one Shabbat, and after we saw somebody outside doing an interview on Instagram saying, “Look, there’s a military car in the parking lot.” They mix politics with…
Aryeh Snitman
It was the consular car, I think. Oh. I think you’re talking about Beth Tikvah
There was a guy in front of Beth Tikvah doing, effectively doxing.
Ellin Bessner
Let me ask you, so until October 7th, did you even consider a Plan B? Even the word, did it ever come up in your conversation?
Aryeh Snitman
So no. First of all, Plan B isn’t really my, it’s not what I’m calling it. I’m calling it a, I’m calling it an escape hatch. I’m calling it insurance. And I’m calling it prudent management of our family and their future. Okay, so we do have grown children. And hopefully one day, maybe grandchildren. And we want to do what we can. We want to do what we can to help ensure their long-term.
Heather Snitman
Freedoms, liberties, the right to go to Jewish schools, the right to go to synagogue, right to go to Jewish Community centre, long-term opportunity.
Ellin Bessner
You think this is a sort of…systemic [attack]?
Heather Snitman
Well, they talked about… I don’t know. They talked about not allowing kosher killing in Canada at one point. What’s next? Circumcision.
Ellin Bessner
Iin 1939, a lot of people, it was a systemic governmental thing. And many Holocaust survivors have this trigger trauma that we’re here and living it over again where our mezuzahs are being taken down or, you know, they’re ripping our mezuzahs.
Aryeh Snitman
The government isn’t taking the mezuzahs down. Okay, so in that respect, the parallels with 1938, 1939 are overblown. They’re hyperbolic. However, However. We are entitled, we are entitled to the trauma because it’s incumbent upon us to learn from history. And while the government today is not advocating anti-Jewish measures, the government, the three levels of government today are not sufficiently, yeah, they’re not sufficiently deterring those who are actively engaged in acts of intimidation against the Jewish community, whether it’s at the JCC where the police, which are, they answered to the municipal government, they refused to intervene against the people who would want to do us harm or at the very least intimidate us and go into the JCC and rough up the Jews. Instead, they’ll go in and arrest a counter protester because, oh, well, the police are there to keep the peace. We can’t have Jews, interfering with protesters just exercising their freedom of speech. This is not a freedom of speech. This is an abuse of the freedoms that we have in Canada in order to undermine those very freedoms.
Heather Snitman
Also, we were told that we live in a post-national state and what…
Aryeh Snitman
Who said that?
Heather Snitman
Trudeau. Trudeau.
Ellin Bessner
Let me ask you some practical terms on the ground. So you’ve started to literally investigate places. Tell me some of the things you’ve done. Where and how and when did you look for, either of you?
Heather Snitman
We’re here in Florida now, and we went to a couple of different communities on the East Coast to see if maybe we’d be happy here.
Aryeh Snitman
We also went to the Gulf Coast for a day. We met some lovely people.
Ellin Bessner
Alligator Ally
Aryeh Snitman
Yeah, that was my first time crossing the Everglades. So This is all, Ellin, this is all investigative at this point. These are things that we’re, you know, we’re considering, we’re looking into, we’re doing what we call our due diligence, right? Because, you know, we can only make a rational decision if we collect enough information. And so.
Ellin Bessner
So what did you think when you, what were you looking for when down here, like to move full time or to spend, become Americans, pack up and leave?
Heather Snitman
Right now, we don’t know. Right now, we don’t know. All of these options, we’re not American citizens. All of these options have certain levels of complexity that need to be considered and need to be worked through. That’s not the only level of, that’s not the only complications, right?
Ellin Bessner
So what about moving to the Trump space, with ICE and all the arrests, and all the craziness?
Aryeh Snitman
This is not the perfect place, okay? People are going to chuckle when they hear that. Obviously it’s not, but the truth is there is no perfect place. You know, I mentioned to you earlier that I had the privilege of spending some years in Israel, and if Israel was the right place at the right time for our family, then we would be considering Israel as an option as well.
Ellin Bessner
But you have citizenship, so could you not just go back?
Aryeh Snitman
That’s not, that’s not, that’s not the, that’s not the roadblock. That’s not the roadblock. What is the roadblock for Israel? The roadblock for Israel is, right now, it relates to… Security. It relates to external security and… and internal governance.
Ellin Bessner
Democracy issues?
Aryeh Snitman
So I’ve said in the past that my view is Israel needs to get its act together. I know that sounds a little flippant because I don’t right now have skin in the game and I’m not there trying physically to try to make things better or more comfortable for our family. But that’s the way it is right now, and that’s the reality. My parents are in Canada. Thank God I got both parents. And, you know, that’s also very much a consideration as to whether or not we would move anywhere.
Ellin Bessner
I was not sure if you know, but a few weeks ago, an organization in Canada called Tafsik had a webinar, just in case our listeners aren’t aware, about Panama, and they had local the rabbi, a rabbi, a real estate agent, and somebody who’s actually bought property. You heard about this? Did you, were you interested in Panama at all?
Heather Snitman
We actually listened to the webinar. And my husband’s going to Panama.
Aryeh Snitman
Yeah, I have plans to go. So I had plans to go before Tafsik set their wheels in motion. You know, I certainly would be delighted to learn more about the legwork that they have already undertaken. There’s a lot to, listen, I’ve never been there. There’s a lot to see, there’s a lot to do, there’s a lot to learn.
Heather Snitman
Spanish for one.
Aryeh Snitman
Well, yeah, I really got to get on that. The first step is to go and see for myself. Now, Panama is a very interesting option because it’s Panama has a very generous avenue. for not just permanent residency, but for citizenship.
Heather Snitman
It’s very welcoming to us as well.
Ellin Bessner
You only have a minute because they just texted us that they’re boarding, so we need to get going. What I want to just sum up is, are your kids on board with coming and moving?
Heather Snitman
They would come to Florida. I’m going where the kids go.
Ellin Bessn er
And what do you want Canadians of Jewish faith who are listening or other people who are not Jewish but listening to understand about what this being in this situation has impacted you? Like we’re here in Florida thinking about where we can live as Jews. And that’s what I’m wondering, how you can, is this part of the conversation you have now at the dinner table with our friends and with friends?
Heather Snitman
Yes, with all our friends, with all our friends. Everybody’s looking for where are we going?
Aryeh Snitman
Not everybody feels the sense of urgency, but there are plenty who do, and there are plenty who are even more concerned than we are about the imminence of a need to do something about this. We talked about how the different levels of government do not have our back in this country, certainly in the City of Toronto, although we have to call out, honourable mention to Mayor Del Duca of Vaughan, which is where we live, who has been very supportive to our community, the municipal government. in particular the mayoralty in Toronto has been an abject failure. I mean, clearly. Allowing people to come into Jewish communities and threaten us.
Ellin Bessner
Have you personally been physically threatened or changed the way you act or because since these things like at all should my…
Heather Snitman
Yeah, I’m not going downtown right now unless I need to.
Aryeh Snitman
Well, there’s certain areas that we’re, you know, and events that we’re staying away from. You know, I… some of these protests, we should be free to go to Queen’s Park whenever we want to. Really the only close to physical altercation we got was when I went down to the Munk Debates last month. So what I wanted to say is that government sets the stage for society and what we have now is effectively an undermining of our community, okay? Because it starts at the education level, at the, in public education, where teachers are actually taking the kids to teach-ins for Palestine, or ‘Let’s go see a protest”, and it evolves into university, where you’ve got…
Ellin Bessner
You don’t have kids still in university, do you? Or you do?
Heather Snitman
We just have one who just graduated.
Aryeh Snitman
One who just graduated.
Ellin Bessner
How was it for that one?
Aryeh Snitman
So she, it was, she actually managed out okay, although one of her profs who she had to maintain some distance from was a regular contributor to the Journal of Settler Colonialism. So it was very much a learning experience for my daughter in terms of understanding the forces out there in academia that are conspiring against our community. She’s graduated.
Heather Snitman
But she lived with six other non-Jewish girls and they did Shabbat. They put up Hanukkiah. I bought them a gingerbread house for Hanukkah.
Ellin Bessner
So what would your great-grandparents think about what you’re talking about now? You said they all came to Canada. Your grandparents came, great-grandparents didn’t. What would they be thinking or your grandparents about this conversation we’re having?
Heather Snitman
Keep your eyes open. Be alert. Be aware. and check out your options.
Aryeh Snitman
Okay, I think they’d be horrified. I think they would be absolutely distraught over the situation here. Okay? Now, it could always be worse, all right? I don’t want to overdo this. There are lots of people here who are, who continue to be perfectly comfortable, but I don’t want to live in a Jewish community. that has to go under armed guard. Like, put it this way.
Ellin Bessner
They have armed guards in Florida too.
Heather Snitman
Where are you going that they’re not?
Aryeh Snitman
Well, okay, so we’re not going to London, England. We’re not going to Manchester. Berlin, Paris, Australia,
Ellin Bessner
So what timeline do you see for your family? Is it like imminent, two years, a year, more?
Aryeh Snitman
We don’t know. We’re still doing legwork.
You’ve run into us at the airport at the end of our very first investigative trip. And, you know, Heather and I are going to have to sit and talk. Get on the same page, maybe, hopefully.
Ellin Bessner
He wants it more than you do, I guess.
Aryeh Snitman
No, Heather wants it,
Heather Snitman
but he wants Panama.
Aryeh Snitman
Well, no, I want to consider our options and make an informed and hopefully an intelligent decision.
Ellin Bessner
This week, Aryeh Snitman is in Panama, a trip he organized on his own initiative. And he’s not alone. Panama has become part of the conversation for some Canadian Jews. In January, the Jewish advocacy group Tafsik held a webinar on Zoom with some leaders of Panama’s Jewish community, although organizers stress they aren’t telling people what to do, just providing information about Jewish schools and kosher food and residency options and antisemitism there, which they say doesn’t exist.
About 300 people registered for the webinar. 20 of them are now in Panama to see the place firsthand.
Jacqueline Lewis is a Toronto immigration lawyer. She volunteers with Tafsik. She bought a property in Panama four months ago, although she’s not moving anytime soon.
She joins me to share why she decided to act.
Jacqueline Lewis
Thank you. Thank you for having me.
Ellin Bessner
Let’s explain to our audience what you have done physically and property-wise.
Jacqueline Lewis
Okay, so I did take the step of purchasing a property in Panama and of putting in place my permanent residence there. So my permanent residency should be coming through in the next week or so. And I have a place that I’ve now visited a couple of times.
Ellin Bessner
So describe, you know, what is it like a home? This is going to be a vacation home, this is going to be a refuge. What is in your family’s mind why you did this?
Jacqueline Lewis
So my reasoning was that I wanted a place that would substitute as a vacation home, but I could also use as a permanent residence if required at some point in time. You know, right now I’m fully engaged in the fight against antisemitism, so I don’t have the, you know, immediate intention of moving to Panama. I’m committed to staying and fighting. and helping whoever I can. But I also wanted to be in a position where I had a backup, a Plan B, and I also was in a position where I knew enough about the country, about the alternatives, and about the process for getting status there so that I could help people do that if need be.
I looked at at least 30 different countries and I looked at things like the Jewish community there, the history of antisemitism, the current antisemitism, what, what sorts of resources would be available to us, the safety, the immigration process, the process to citizenship, whether immigration was permanent or, or temporary, and of course the cost. because not everybody can afford to go to Israel, and that’s a big issue. So out of all the-
Ellin Bessner
Would that have been, let me interrupt, that would’ve been your first choice.
Jacqueline Lewish
It certainly would’ve been a serious consideration. And though perhaps I could have made that step, maybe some of my close friends and family couldn’t. And I think a lot of people find themselves in that situation where they want to be around friends and family and community, and not everybody can afford to go. So I was looking for an alternative to that. And there were some alternatives, but I picked what I considered, after a lot of research, to be the best one.
Ellin Bessner
How much does it cost to move to Israel versus how much does it cost to move to Panama?
Jacqueline Lewis
Well, if you’re looking at purchasing something, obviously Israel’s going to be very expensive. Even a one-bedroom condominium in a place like Tel Aviv can cost you into the millions of dollars.
I purchased, to give you an example, I couldn’t decide whether I wanted to live on the beach or I wanted to live in the city. And health care is something that’s important to us, right? I mean, we want health care. We want great schools for our kids. So if you live on the beach, there’s more limited healthcare. There are American schools, and this is about an hour and 20 minutes outside of Panama City. But in Panama City, there’s actually five Jewish schools, and there’s state-of-the-art healthcare.
I mean, I think that we’re in a dysfunctional relationship with this country right now. I think that I grew up here. I was born in Toronto and healthcare was great. Our dollar exceeded the U.S. dollar. Our economy was booming. We believed in the veracity of what politicians had to say. Like, there was no antisemitism. I just never experienced it. Everything was great. And then one day you wake up and you say, like, Where am I? You know? And you don’t recognize where you are anymore. And you’re having to look over your shoulder. You’re having to watch what you say. You’re having to hush, hush. So, I figured, you know, I’m now in a dysfunctional relationship with this country.
I’ve been accused of Islamophobia because I tried to stop the Palestinian flag raising [by the City of Toronto]. And, and I think this is the direction things are moving in, and I find it scary. And at the very least, I’m hoping I’m going to have a nice vacation home.
And that cost me $360,000 U.S. dollars, which comparatively for a 1,350 square foot, two-bedroom, two-bathroom place in an absolute luxury building right on the beach with every amenity, is really inexpensive.
Ellin Bessner
You’ve mentioned 30 different countries. A lot of people are looking at the United States, especially Florida, where there’s large Jewish communities. But was the opportunity to become a permanent resident there? What sort of sold you on it too? Because it’s hard to get into the States, right?
Jacqueline Lewis
You have all these big party issues for permanent residents. in the United States. People are selling opportunities to move there, but the opportunities are based on a business visa where you start a business. I’m quite familiar with all of this as I’m an immigration lawyer. So you start a business there, and then that would give you the right to work there for five years. It does not give you any residency, permanent or temporary residency option. It’s based on your ability to work there. And people have different models, but there’s no clear pathway to any kind of permanent residency.
And then, I mean, my mother, her whole family is American. I feel very at home in the United States. We had a place in Florida growing up. I spent a lot of time there. Florida would be a natural option for me. But what happens when DeSantis’ term is up? What happens when Trump’s term is up, you know, are we going to have a Democratic president there? They elected a Democratic mayor in Miami and immediately started to see a surge in antisemitism. So I just don’t know that the United States is that far behind Canada.
There’s no perfect place. You’re going to deal with something wherever you go, you know,
Israel’s a certain kind of lifestyle. You know, but then it offers so many benefits for Jewish people. I just came back from Israel. I was there, you know, on a delegation of lawyers sent by the consulate in December to learn how to better fight antisemitism. And it was a really great, worthwhile thing to do. And it renewed my love of Israel. I absolutely love it there. Is it a lifestyle everybody wants to lead? I don’t know. You know, it’s a difficult life.
Ellin Bessner
What do people say when they hear you here in Canada say,” I’m helping people who want to move to Panama or to leave Canada”? Do you get pushback on that at all?
Jacqueline Lewish
Absolutely. I get pushback to my best friends on that. Yeah, they’re saying, “Oh, we’re nowhere near that place” And I’m like, “That’s great. If I only have a vacation property, I’m happy. Like, I would be so happy if all that ever turned out to be was a vacation property.”
You know, but people tend to, you know, not want to see everything. You know, it’s not that they’re not interested. It’s that it’s hard. It’s really hard. And to look at the everyday antisemitism here and to reconcile it with the place we all grew up, you know, or the place we expected to live. And I just don’t see it as the same anymore, and I’d be the happiest person to say I was wrong.
Ellin Bessner
What do you advise people who are having the discussion?
Speaker 2
I’d say either fight and try and be part of the solution, or if you don’t feel that you can do that, and some people don’t, and if you’re nervous that things can get worse, we could have a Bondi beach here, God forbid, or something like that, then I think you need to start to look at what your backup plan is. And you don’t have to decide, “Oh, you know, I’m gonna leave”.
People have vacation properties everywhere. At least look into immigration and you don’t even need to buy a property. A lot of people easily qualify for the pensionado visa. It’s a unique thing in Panama where all they require of you is that you show some sort of a pension. Our government pension would qualify, or a work pension or an annuity of some sort to show that you make $1,000 U.S. a month. That’s $12,000 U.S. dollars a year. If you can show that, you can qualify for permanent residence in Panama and get all kinds of perks for people on pensions.
So, and then it’s a couple thousand dollars of legal fees to apply and within six months get a permanent residency there. What does it hurt? It doesn’t hurt. You don’t have to go and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars. And you can be any age. You don’t have to be of pension age as long as you can show the thousand U.S. a month. So given the options and given what we’ve seen over the last couple of years, and given that I don’t think anything’s getting better, I think it’s only gotten worse, why not? Why not put something in place? That’s how I look at it.
Ellin Bessner
How widespread do you think this is?
Jacqueline Lewis
Well, it’s really hard to say because, you know, the people that act are the louder minority.
Ellin Bessner
Personally, in your circles that you know, I mean, are five people moving? Have you got? To Panama or elsewhere, maybe. How many do you think?
Jacqueline Lewis
I’d say the people that I’ve talked to over the last couple of weeks? Several dozens are seriously looking at buying right now. A hundred.
Ellin Bessner
100 people, several dozen, wow.
Jacqueline Lewis
Yeah, are seriously looking. And many have already bought, many have made plans to go and buy. I have friends there now that are looking, you know, a couple of friends are down there right now and looking.
Ellin Bessneer
Just finally on the full disclosure business, like does Tafsik at all have any financial arrangements where they benefit, or pay commissions or whatever? You’re not getting commissions for any of this stuff?
Jacqueline Lewis
Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Yeah.
Ellin Bessner
Good to get to know you and thank you for sharing your story on The CJN. Thanks a lot.
Jacqueline Lewish
Thank you for having me.
Ellin Bessner
Behind all these individual decisions is a growing ecosystem of real estate agents, immigration lawyers, and consultants fielding inquiries from Canadian Jews who never expected to be asking these questions.
In Florida, one of those advisors is Lauren Cohen. She’s a Canadian-born lawyer based in Boca Raton, and since October 7th, she says something has changed. She’s part of a Facebook group called “Canadians Moving to Machaya, Florida.” (Machaya meaning a relief or something pleasurable, in Yiddish)
I asked her what she’s hearing.
Q. So what I would like to know is, you’ve been there 25 years. You left way before October 7th. But are you able to say what the interest level is from your potential clients and what you’ve seen an increase?
Lauren Cohen
Absolutely. So it’s interesting because post-October 7th, I had huge interest. Huge. It dwindled. It came back. It dwindled. And then the election happened. When Carney came in, the phone was off the hook. It was insane. But then the tariffs happened. Or maybe it was in the other order. I don’t even remember anymore. So around that time, until around September, October, my business was literally dead. People were asking a lot of questions, but not taking any action. So they were motivated, but not committed, I guess. And then as soon as the weather started changing, people started being a little more committed.
And the level of inquiries is very high, particularly from Jewish people, because they know that I’m going to look after them.
But one of the challenges is that getting a five-year non-immigrant visa is not a big deal. Getting a green card is a big deal!
And I spoke to a couple, they moved to Austin, Texas. Their lawyer had not looked at a long-term plan. And it’s a very common problem because they just want to get them the visa. They want another notch in their belt. And that’s not how I can operate. I actually can’t operate that way because especially when it’s my people, I need to look at their long-term plan. What are you trying to do? What are you trying to accomplish? Do you have kids? How old are the kids? If the kids are under 21, we have to really think about those kids because what good does it do you to come here and then the kids are out when they’re 21 if you don’t have a long-term plan?
Ellin Bessner
What are they’re inquiring about and what is motivating them.
Lauren Cohen
The antisemitism, the politics. There’s a lot of motivators, but they’re sick and tired of all the politics and the economy. And I have a program called “How to Immigrate Through Real Estate”, where I help people access visas correlating to real estate investing, which then is not just a business. It’s not like they have to be actively involved in running the day-to-day. It’s a little more passive so they can build something else for their spouse or for their family.
Ellin Bessner
Okay. Makes sense. So back to what they were saying. And now. After Bondi Beach, for example, or…
Lauren Cohen
I haven’t seen that make a big difference. I know there’s huge interest in Panama, which I also have great connections there. I mean, I think Panama is really good if you’re retiring. I don’t think it’s as good, especially if you have kids, because you can’t send them to school in Panama. You can’t send them to college in Panama. So the big driver for coming to the U.S. is, especially Florida, is the schools. and the opportunities and the business opportunities.
Ellin Bessner
So your clients that are now or have been interested in finding a refuge from antisemitism, Is it mostly from Toronto or you have all kinds of Canadian clients? Where do they come from?
Lauren Cohen
Most people are from the GTA. And part of that is because of the Everything Jewish Toronto [Facebook] group, which people are constantly tagging me. And so, you know, one leads to the other and that’s where I’m from. So people know me. But I have clients from Ottawa, I have clients from Montreal, I have clients from all over the country. Again, not all Jewish, but that is a big driver. I mean, Montrealers need to get out in an even bigger way.
Ellin Bessner
Why do you say that?
Lauren Cohen
Because it’s so bad there. I think Montreal is almost more pronounced, if that’s even possible. They don’t have Olivia Chow though, so.
Ellin Bessner
Let’s say you have 100 clients. How many of them are seriously moving because of anti-Semitism? Would it be like half, 1/4, a third, one in five?
Lauren Cohen
Well, first of all, I don’t have 100 clients.
Ellin Bessner
I’m just saying, 20 clients, whatever.
Lauren Cohen
And I would say that about a third of them are motivated. That’s their core motivator.
Ellin Bessner
Really.
Lauren Cohen
Right now.
Ellin Bessner
But, you know, moving to the States, it also has drawbacks because of ICE and… the Trump. And [positives] because it’s great to be Jewish. It’s an easy Jewish life. It’s a beautiful Jewish life.
Lauren Cohen
Well, that is, but it’s not always. I mean, not in like New York. I wouldn’t be moving to New York.
Ellin Bessner
No, Florida, I’m saying. Florida tends to be like the Goldene Medinah now.
Lauren Cohen
Yeah, exactly. It’s the alternate aliyah. And they do have to weigh that out. But Trump is not going to be here forever. And Neither is DeSantis for that matter, but I may not agree with his politics, but he’s been extremely good to the Jews.
The problem is a lot of people, Canadians, are small C conservative and they’re very, they overanalyze things. Canadians tend to be like, they research a million times and they overanalyze things and the analysis paralysis could stop them from having the opportunity. Because the realities on this side of the border are changing constantly, too, as are the rules, as are the requirements. I know that the scrutiny has increased greatly. I know that it’s going to continue. There is increased levels of diligence and scrutiny on various Green Card paths, such as the National Interest Waiver, which is actually how I came in.
2 weeks ago, 3 weeks ago, he imposed visa bans on immigrant visas from 75 countries. These changes happen and they’re so there’s such sweeping changes and we have no way to anticipate what they’re going to be.
Ellin Bessner
What are the advantages, do you think, for Canadians who are worried about antisemitism to move and move to South Florida or Florida, period? Because.
Lauren Cohen
It breaks my heart to see what’s going on because I did a little video. I’ll share these videos with you because I think they’ll be helpful. It was called, I called it Lech Le Florida. ‘Cause you probably heard about that guy who moved to Tulsa from Vancouver, Michael Sachs, And he created this thing, Lech le Tulsa. And, you know, listen, if I’m a Jew moving from Toronto, I ain’t moving to Tulsa. And somebody said to me, “Why don’t you have that, or why don’t you offer that in Boca Raton”?
‘Cause we don’t need to!
So there’s a natural affinity to come here ’cause of what’s behind me, right? ‘Cause of what’s outside. Sun sand palm trees.
Ellin Bessner
and kosher restaurants
Lauren Cohen
It’s never going to be a community like the Toronto Jewish community. It just, that doesn’t exist. That community is so tight and strong. Here it’s much more decentralized or, but it’s also much broader. My son was born here and he’s a freshman in high school and people are desperate to come to schools in Florida because it’s safe.
Ellin Bessner
Well,…. the Parkland shooting, but we won’t go there.
Lauren Cohen.
It is a factor. So it’s a reality. A lot of people here, even staunch Democrats, have guns. Listen, it’s not Israel. Okay. It’s never going to be Israel. But if you can’t go to Israel, to me, this is the next best place. There are so many advantages. It is easy to be a Jew. I would not wear this around the Toronto area. And I have this from the Iron Dome, which my son got me for my first gift ever that he bought me on his own. He’s 15. And it’s a Magen David. Yeah. It’s a Magin David with Chai. And has a piece of the Iron Dome in here.
Ellin Bessner
And this is for people who are listening, not watching. She’s wearing an Everything Jewish Toronto sweatshirt.
Lauren Cohen
Hoodie yes. And even the lady from Ottawa saw me this morning wearing this. She goes, “You wouldn’t wear that in Toronto”. I said, “Probably not.” You know, but here, I thank God. And again, I don’t ever want to take it for granted, but it’s an easy place to be Jewish. But the problem is, it’s also an easy place to be a very secular Jew. And most Jews here are secular.
Ellin Bessner
But there’s 600,000 Jews in Florida.
Lauren Cohen
There’s 600,000 Jews in Florida, okay? It ain’t going anywhere and we won’t let it.
Ellin Bessner
Could you count the number of Canadians who you’ve actually helped make the decision to move and have come out since October 7th? Would there be like 10, 5 in your?
Lauren Cohen
For me personally, I would say probably 10, but it’s growing and the interest is definitely up. Those numbers are going to be much, much higher. The number of people I see that have come into Boca, especially, because that’s where I am, from, like I have a group, a WhatsApp group for ex-GTA people that are in South Florida. And it’s 75 people and growing. You know, there’s a lot of people that have been here for a lot of years, but I’ve never seen people join, like people migrating in the numbers that I have in the past couple of years, since October 7th. The number of Canadians that I see here is unprecedented for sure.
Snowbirds is a different story than people. This is people that have children that are relocating permanently, that are finding, it’s especially the ones with the kids that are like young teens that they don’t want to go to schools in Canada. That they don’t want to expose them to that level of antisemitism, which is a real concern. And they’re coming here because they are seeking safety. They are seeking alternative aliyah because you can all move to Israel for whatever reasons.
It’s a lot of money. Right? And it’s far. Here they can drive here if, God forbid, something happens and they need to be with their parents that are in Toronto still. They can go. The parents can come for six months. They can’t really go to Israel if they can’t travel. So there’s a lot of driving factors that bring people here.
My goal, my number one goal, is to bring them here with a path, with a journey, with a strategy, because I do not want to bring them here and have them come to me four years from now and say, Now what? Now what?
Ellin Bessner
And that’s what Jewish Canada sounded like for this episode of North Star, made possible thanks to the generous support of the Ira Gluskin and Maxine Granovsky Gluskin Charitable Foundation.
If this Plan B question has entered your home, or you think it shouldn’t have, we want to hear from you. You can write to ys directly at [email protected]. That’s [email protected].
If this episode resonates with you, please share it with somebody who’s having these conversations too.
Our show is produced by Zachary Judah Kauffman, Michael Fraiman is the executive producer, and Alicia Richler is our editorial director. Bret Higgins composed our theme.
You can find out more about Panama, Florida, and our guests, by going to the links I put for you in our show notes.
Thanks for listening.
Credits
* Host and writer: Ellin Bessner [email protected]
* Production team: Zachary Kauffman (senior producer), Michael Fraiman (executive producer), Alicia Richler, The CJN’s Editorial Director
* Music: Bret Higgins
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