The 2025 NASCAR Cup Series championship result still stings for many, even two weeks removed, especially those who are fans of Denny Hamlin.
Hamlin, seeking his first title in his 20th year trying, dominanted at Phoenix Raceway and looked to have a storybook title on lock. But a late caution and subsequent overtime restart, combined with a four-tire final pit stop when others took two or stayed out entirely, ended up costing Hamlin both the win and his first career championship.
The title result caused uproar from many fans and even drivers and teams. But there was one person everybody wanted to hear from: The driver of the No. 11 himself.
While Hamlin had done media interviews with both television and in the media center after the race, fans were looking forward to tuning into his weekly podcast Actions Detrimental, hoping he’d have much to say. But as time went on, no episode had dropped. After nearly two weeks, fans were beginning to question whether or not Hamlin was too distraught to even record an episode.
On Friday, Nov. 14, Hamlin finally recorded and released the Phoenix episode, during which he discussed his mindset.
“This was my 20th year trying to win a championship,” Hamlin said. “It didn’t happen. Dale Earnhardt, it took him 20 years to win his first and only Daytona 500. But we race in a different time than when Dale Earnhardt won his Daytona 500. That race didn’t have a green-white-checkered. Dale Earnhardt likely would’ve never won a Daytona 500 had we had green-white-checkers.
“Back then, when you had an event and it was 500 miles, it was 500 miles, right? It wasn’t 513 or whatever it turned out to be. … Over the last 15 years, we really took a jump towards entertainment. I think it did take its toll on some of the race fans and some of the purists of the sport overtime, and the latest is the format, right?”
Hamlin then spoke on the playoffs as a whole, criticizing the one-race finale to determine a champion — as some have been doing for a long time.
“Race your best in this one race, and that’s gonna make you a champion,” he said. “That’s what they wanted it to come down to, was one race, and you gotta perform your best during that race. For 312 laps, which is the race distance, not one time was that [No.] 5 [of Kyle Larson, the eventual champion] out in front of me. Unfortunately he was on lap 315.”
Hamlin later said that a lot of drivers who are “great” are all for a bigger sample size to determine the champion.
“For people like myself, William Byron, Kyle Larson, Ryan Blaney, Tyler Reddick, we’re all for a bigger sample size,” Hamlin said. “If I didn’t list your name, of course you love the one-race playoff, because it rewards mediocrity for the bulk of the season.
“You’ve never had one ripped out of your hands. You’ve taken out of people’s hands, but you’ve never had it ripped out. So you don’t know what that feels like. You don’t know what it’s like to dominate a season, and then all of a sudden the format keeps resetting the score on you, and then finally you end up losing in overtime.”
Hamlin’s support for a system that doesn’t involve deciding a champion is huge, given that NASCAR’s on the verge of potentially changing the system entirely for 2026. While some are hoping for a full 36-race points format, others are willing to compromise and hope that NASCAR utilizes the 2004-13 Chase format.
However, Hamlin later said that everyone wanting a 36-race format should “get over it, you’re gonna get playoffs.” It seemingly confirms a report that playoffs will be around in some capacity going forward, a report that could drive diehard fans away from the sport as the sanctioning body continues to chase a nonexistent casual fanbase.
Co-host Jared Allen compared the playoff format to that of a “next-score-wins” mentality instead of the “game-seven moments” NASCAR desperately seeks with this format.
“This feeling doesn’t happen in any other sport,” Allen said. “You’re not up 30-0 with two minutes to go in the fourth quarter, and then all of a sudden the referee comes over and says, ‘Hey, next point wins’ while the other team has the ball. That’s kind of what happened here. The [No.] 11 car dominated 312 laps of this race, and then with one to go, circumstances … .”
“I can’t think of another [sport] that penalizes the winning team more than what probably NASCAR does,” Hamlin added. “And a lot of it is just for the sake of entertainment. We went down this road of, ‘We’re gonna chase more entertainment,’ and less on the sports side.”
Even still, Hamlin gave credit to Larson, saying he was a deserving champion — which is so important for him to do, knowing just how many based Larson’s season off of Phoenix alone when Larson would have won in a full-season format as well.
“He did nothing wrong,” Hamlin said. “His team knew that they had to do something to try to win. They played the game as it was meant to be played. We definitely have a deserving champion in the [No.] 5 team. They scored more points than anyone else the entire year. I don’t think anyone should ever question the deservingness of Kyle Larson’s championship, because he definitely did.
“There is no asterisk beside this one.”
Hamlin also expressed appreciation to fans and fellow competitors like Byron, who brought out the final caution, for reaching out with kind words and messages.
“I saw it, I felt it, I still feel it on social media,” he said. “It’s gratifying for me. The cups are empty. The trophies mean nothing. … It’s the respect that we really ultimately seek.”
Hamlin also clarified reports that he had called Carl Edwards after Phoenix. Edwards, who lost the 2016 championship in similar heartbreaking fashion, retired over that offseason and walked away from the sport. The reports that Hamlin had reached out to Edwards had some worried that Hamlin might also walk away after his own title heartbreak.
Hamlin confirmed that while he did exchange texts with Edwards, the exchange was otherwise “a little bit misreported.” He also confirmed he’d be back in 2026, though he dropped a small bombshell that if he had won the title, he actually would’ve been clamoring for team owner Joe Gibbs to let him out of his remaining contract and retire on that high note.
“I would’ve begged Joe to let me quit had I won that race,” Hamlin said. “It would have just been the perfect way for me to go out. But they’re not ready for that yet. They have to have time to work on my succession plan.”
So instead of retiring after losing the championship, Hamlin actually contemplated retirement had he won the title. But like Hamlin said, who could’ve possibly replaced him? None of Joe Gibbs Racing’s NASCAR O’Reilly Auto Parts Series drivers are ready, and it seems Corey Heim won’t ever set foot in a JGR Toyota.
The revelation surely creates a conflict of emotions for Hamlin fans, who probably want nothing more than a championship but also want to see their driver keep racing — so maybe it was a blessing that he didn’t win? Although the likelihood of Hamlin walking away would’ve been slim regardless, due to the aforementioned lack of succession plan.
Despite confirming his 2026 return, Hamlin said he still wanted nothing to do with racing right now.
“I’ve always been preaching that the championship is a roll of the dice,” he said. “But I’m still allowed to be disappointed when I actually run the race, dominate the race and then don’t get it in the end.”
Allen said the No. 11 team had overcome a ton of adversity at Phoenix, from the clutch issues to the flat tire, which made the overtime restart sting even more.
“It felt like you were tested in so many ways,” Allen said. “There was the clutch issue — it’s like, ‘Oh, here’s the mechanical issue that always bites Denny in the ass in these late seasons.’ Nope, that was fine. ‘Oh, here’s the caution with 30 [laps] to go with the [No.] 44 [of JJ Yeley] who was running 40th on the day,’ and you overcame that.
“It just felt like there were so many tests throughout the race that you and the [No.] 11 team passed, and at the end there was just a trick question.”
Hamlin and Allen both expressed hope that the episode, despite its delay in release, would provide closure for any fans still upset over the outcome of the race, with Hamlin noting that recording day was probably the earliest he felt like he could record an episode to allow himself to cool down from the result.
With the combination of the Phoenix result, ownership of 23XI Racing, the birth of his son, racing a full 36-race schedule, his ailing father and the looming lawsuit his team and Front Row Motorsports have against NASCAR, Hamlin is ready to turn the page to 2026.
“I don’t think I could redo 2025 again,” Hamlin said. “No way.”
The episode in and of itself seemed therapeutic for Hamlin, for him to finally be able to chat about what happened and close the book on that painful chapter of his life. Hamlin can now focus his attention forward on Daytona and the lawsuit instead of revisiting the past.
It’s no secret that it will take a while to get the sour taste of the title race out of people’s mouths. But even after a 20th year of losing a title, the 45-year-old Hamlin, while bitter, is still gracious in defeat, a lesson that many could learn.
